Hello! I am sorry, I don't know Polish language, but I have a question about a job in Poland. I am citizen of Ukraine and I wanna find a job as Content Manager or Junior Front End developer. I don't have any experience of work, but I know HTML and CSS well, and normally know JS. I need a job in Poland which can pay for my living there, because I don't have money for rent of apartment there. Is it really or fantastic? I never was looking for jobs in Poland before.
What can you recommend to me? Some web sites or any additional advises. I have reasons why I can't continue live in Ukraine, so I can't work here for getting experience of work.
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It might be tricky. In general there are very few junior positions, and for someone with zero experience you most likely won't get a junior position anyway and should try to find some internship instead.
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Try in Easter European companies: Luxoft, Epam, SoftServe, DataArt and so on.
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Some web sites or any additional advises.
These are some Polish job offer aggregate websites:
https://justjoin.it
https://nofluffjobs.com
Additionally a profile on Linkedin may help for attracting recruiters to contact you.
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@Kristal9: They won't make a profit that way. Their business consist on selling juniors in price of seniors.
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It is really hard to find junior position right now. I work with some people from Ukraine, and it looks it takes some time to get all work permissions etc plus if you are not studying on polish university you need to have a permanent work contract, so you would be much more expensive than regular student plus after hiring your company would need to wait until you start to work legally.
Lots of companies are hiring people from Ukraine but they tend to look for people with some experience that are hard to find in Poland. If I were you I would start looking for remote position and if you find the job then I would try to move to Poland. If you can prove your skills, show some of your projects maybe you will succeed. Your starting position is not good and the market is quite difficult for entry lvl candidates but still you can try.
The second option is to find standard job without language requirements - lots of people from Ukraine start this way. There are companies that organize all permissions etc, and than start to look for IT job being already in Poland. Working for few months in Poland you will probably learn some Polish - I know from my own experience that learning Ukrainian/Russian is quite easy, so probably it is the same other way. If time is not you ally this is probably the easiest option.
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You can just send a buch of emails with cv to some companies in Poland and see what they'll tell you. You can use websites with job offers linked above (they aggregate pretty good offers) or try to search some offers and companies on your own. If you don't have any experience, I'd suggest to find a job in your country, get some experience and then try to find job abroad as an experienced professional. If you choose companies like Luxoft, Epam, SoftServe etc. in Ukraine probably you'll have possibilities to move from Ukraine offices into Poland offices as an employee of these companies. I suppose that would be easier option than finding a job "from scratch" in another country. You can also try to apply to these companies in Poland offices if you feel confident enough. I think you should choose mostly corporations because they don't care that much that you don't speak Polish as long as you speak good English and they may offer you better base salary on the start. Nevertheless, learning Polish will increase your chances. Please keep in mind the fact that when you want to work abroad in IT (no matter if it's Poland or somewhere else), you have to be better in a several professional areas than the others in some way to convince employer to hire you instead of anyone else in Poland.
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Hello there!
I will shortly explain you how situation looks in Poland. Recently (from 2017-2018) finding a junior position as a software developer becomes harder and harder each year. The are multiple reasons:
- in normal situation in our country - we had not so much job offers for juniors
- in covid situation the job offers number for juniors were reduced 2 or 3 times
- the computer science in our universities is the top 1 most popular students choice for many years - we have a plenty of graduates finishing university every year and trying to find they first job (if they didn't have luck or have been to lazy to find it at 2nd or 3rd year)
- Bootcamps: in Poland we have multiple programming schools called bootcamps. I don't know any of these school personally, but they generally works like this: they are not school like university with mass of theories, algorithms, mathematics etc. They have programming theory intruduction of course, but in this schools main focus is pressed on practical skills. They are designed to be short (200 - 500 hours) and condensed course which theoretically should allow you to find job immediately after finishing this course. Theoretically, but in practice its practically just not enough to get a job without extra hours (extra mean another hundreads or even thousands) spent alone at coding (I am not saying this about any specific bootcamp, maybe there are some better schools, which what they saying and promising is true, but for most schools - its more like selling an "american dream" then reality. Not necessarily a lie, but some understatements what the real situation looks like when it comes to search for a first job without experience). So there is plenty of boocamp graduates fighting for even being invited to recrutation process as well. If the company is big and recognizable, there can be even hundreads or thousands CV sent for junior positions. .
I know it sounds scary, I know, but its not totally impossible to find a job, even in this hard covid times. The biggest advantage when looking for a job that you can get is:
- having any commercial experience!!! This is the biggest advantage you can get to find a job. This not necessairly have to be a "serious" job experience, it can be any paid/unpaid internship, some freelance experience, little own business where you are selling even for small amout of money - your code or coding skills etc. Having just one year, or even half a year of commercial experience implies a really big chance to being invited for interview. I don't know your exact situation, but maybe it will be simplier for you to find your first experience in Ukraine, and then trying to find second job in Poland.
- getting an engineering degree (the better university, the bigger chances you have, but it's not so crucial like other factors)
- any commitment in open-source projects
- your own projects placed on github - it can be an advantage if they are really well written and not so simple like calculator app, to-do list, hangman game, or weather checker. Disadvantage may be the fact, that even if you have nice and well desing, a little bit more complicated project that above examples, which is greatly showing your skills, there is still a possibility,that no one will even check or notice that. It depends on recruiting methods
- good english knowledge (at least B2 level for reading, sometimes fluent at speaking, depends on company requirements) is mandatory
If you tell us more about IT situation in your country we will be able to compare and provide you better feedback. I am curious about the bootcamps, are they also popular in your country? Maybe you know how other Ukrainian programmers were looking for their first job in Ukraine? It would be nice if you share how situation in IT looks in your country.
PS. Sorry for my bad english, I know its not to perfect, but i hope you will understand what I wanted to express :)
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@CoderOne: Hi! Thanks for your time which you used for me.
I can't continue live in the Ukraine, because our people are very different from me. So, they always drive on sidewalks(this is very dangerous for me and all pedestrians also), our drivers of public buses are often drunk. I don't have own car. So, if I gonna go to a work I should use public transportation. Several times I was beaten by drunk drivers of public buses and when I am walking on a sidewalk I often became a victim of a car accident. Police always ignore my calls. Our people really very angry and disresponsible. It's reason why I wanna move from this country and why I can't work here. Because every using of public transportation is very big risk for me.
Situation with IT in our country is clearly hard. People even with big experience have big troubles to find a IT job. Almost all our Universities don't have Computer Science faculties. Which Universities have this faculty they teach only Fortran and Algol 58. It's very old technologies. And nowadays these technologies are useless.
Yes, our country have enough privat bootcamps, I can't say about their quality, because I dunno people who used it. But they have very beautiful websites. Perhaps, they are useful, I dunno.
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Kristal9 napisał(a):
@CoderOne: Hi! Thanks for your time which you used for me.
I can't continue live in the Ukraine, because our people are very different from me. So, they always drive on sidewalks(this is very dangerous for me and all pedestrians also), our drivers of public buses are often drunk. I don't have own car. So, if I gonna go to a work I should use public transportation. Several times I was beaten by drunk drivers of public buses and when I am walking on a sidewalk I often became a victim of a car accident. Police always ignore my calls. Our people really very angry and disresponsible. It's reason why I wanna move from this country and why I can't work here. Because every using of public transportation is very big risk for me.
Well this sounds a little extreme. I don't want to criticize but is it really that bad in bigger cities in Ukraine? I was a few times in Lviv and didn't notice any sidewalk carmageddon. Sounds like a very unusual situation and reason to move out. Maybe just save up for a car if being a pedestrian is unsafe? But I get it, you've decided that it's not a place for you.
Situation with IT in our country is clearly hard. People even with big experience have big troubles to find a IT job. Almost all our Universities don't have Computer Science faculties. Which Universities have this faculty they teach only Fortran and Algol 58. It's very old technologies. And nowadays these technologies are useless.
Understandable, although I met a lot of Ukrainian programmers that are very skillful I wonder if this is really the case? We also complain about our higher education and they do teach outdated technologies in a lot of places, or just do it badly. But even outdated technologies can give you some insight into how stuff works today. On the other side my girlfriend is majoring mathematics and had multiple programming courses (python, c, c++, r) that I was involved in to help her out. In my opinion these courses were pretty well-rounded and she could learn how to program easily but she wasn't interested in it at all. If you were to ask her what a pointer is you'd get no answer at all, even though she got 100% from these courses at the end ;) So my point is that people don't respect chances they get to learn things. Back to your problem - you could probably get into a university in Poland with some kind of scholarship or social program. Not sure how it works but there's a lot of Ukrainian students so there's a way.
To be honest I don't know if a first job in a different country is a good idea. I get it that salaries might be better but I'm not sure if anyone would take up the risk for a foreigner without experience. I would try to get a job locally or remotely while living in Ukraine, save up some money and after a year start looking out for job opportunities overseas.
Another thing I want to say that some programmers I know - and this might surprise you - even move to Ukraine due to low living costs compared to anywhere else. Working for a company based in the West and having low costs beats anything.
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@clonazepam: I live in Kiev. Without working I can't buy a car. So, I should work to buy a car. So, I should use public transportation, but it's is very dangerous for me.
I think Ukrainian programmers are enough skilled, because here are a few jobs for them. So, they must be very skilled to find a job.
I think the most important thing to become a programmer is a wish. If you can use your time for it then you can became a programmer.
I used different online bootcamps via Codecademy, FreeCodeCamp and some Udemy courses. I was coding about 4-6 hours per day along several months. I don't think that I need any Universities now. So I think I have enough skills for a first job. So it's wasting time for me.
Yes, I understand that to find a first job abroad is a super difficult deal, but I don't have another choice.
Yes, looking for a online job is good idea, I'll try.
Yes, living in Ukraine is very chip, but Ukraine has very high crime level. So high level that even community don't think that crimes are a problem.